Comments on: Do kids have to sit on the floor for us to recognize that we are heading towards rock bottom? http://www.alanlawrencesitomer.com/2009/09/23/1476-do-kids-have-to-sit-on-the-floor-for-us-to-recognize-that-we-are-heading-towards-rock-bottom/ Author, Educator, Speaker Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:40:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: alan http://www.alanlawrencesitomer.com/2009/09/23/1476-do-kids-have-to-sit-on-the-floor-for-us-to-recognize-that-we-are-heading-towards-rock-bottom/comment-page-1/#comment-6 alan Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:04:59 +0000 http://www.staging.electronichog.com/wordpress/?p=1476#comment-6 Angel, I disagree. I mean the fact is that it's just not possible to keep up with all the demands over the course of the year once you hit a certain point of student volume. After all, there are only a certain amount of essays you can grade before you are cutting corners simply out of the sheer necessity to sleep... and thus the kids are getting less of you as a teacher because you can't be as thorough... which therefore means the quality of my ability to be as responsive as I need to be to the students in my class in order to help improve their skills is jeopardized, if not sacrificed outright. To teach a class of 20 gives me the opportunity to dive deeply into each student's work. To teach a class of 50 does not provide that same opportunity and thus, I am forced to, as mentioned, seek shortcuts to navigate the demands of this job. And to be as immensely successful as I need to be, taking the "path of least resistance" is not really a best means to this end. I agree, a poor teacher is not necessarily a better educator with 20 as opposed to 50 kids but a great teacher is less so when they are charged with 50 per class as opposed to 20. Class sizes do matter and I think the only people who ever say that they don't are people who have never actually had to step up and teach impacted classrooms -- cause I have yet to meet a real teacher in a real school who thinks that HUGE classes hold no sway when it comes to their own ability to perform. Angel, I disagree. I mean the fact is that it’s just not possible to keep up with all the demands over the course of the year once you hit a certain point of student volume. After all, there are only a certain amount of essays you can grade before you are cutting corners simply out of the sheer necessity to sleep… and thus the kids are getting less of you as a teacher because you can’t be as thorough… which therefore means the quality of my ability to be as responsive as I need to be to the students in my class in order to help improve their skills is jeopardized, if not sacrificed outright. To teach a class of 20 gives me the opportunity to dive deeply into each student’s work. To teach a class of 50 does not provide that same opportunity and thus, I am forced to, as mentioned, seek shortcuts to navigate the demands of this job.

And to be as immensely successful as I need to be, taking the “path of least resistance” is not really a best means to this end.

I agree, a poor teacher is not necessarily a better educator with 20 as opposed to 50 kids but a great teacher is less so when they are charged with 50 per class as opposed to 20.

Class sizes do matter and I think the only people who ever say that they don’t are people who have never actually had to step up and teach impacted classrooms — cause I have yet to meet a real teacher in a real school who thinks that HUGE classes hold no sway when it comes to their own ability to perform.

]]> By: Alan Sitomer http://www.alanlawrencesitomer.com/2009/09/23/1476-do-kids-have-to-sit-on-the-floor-for-us-to-recognize-that-we-are-heading-towards-rock-bottom/comment-page-1/#comment-573 Alan Sitomer Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:04:00 +0000 http://www.staging.electronichog.com/wordpress/?p=1476#comment-573 Angel, I disagree. I mean the fact is that it's just not possible to keep up with all the demands over the course of the year once you hit a certain point of student volume. After all, there are only a certain amount of essays you can grade before you are cutting corners simply out of the sheer necessity to sleep... and thus the kids are getting less of you as a teacher because you can't be as thorough... which therefore means the quality of my ability to be as responsive as I need to be to the students in my class in order to help improve their skills is jeopardized, if not sacrificed outright. To teach a class of 20 gives me the opportunity to dive deeply into each student's work. To teach a class of 50 does not provide that same opportunity and thus, I am forced to, as mentioned, seek shortcuts to navigate the demands of this job. And to be as immensely successful as I need to be, taking the "path of least resistance" is not really a best means to this end. I agree, a poor teacher is not necessarily a better educator with 20 as opposed to 50 kids but a great teacher is less so when they are charged with 50 per class as opposed to 20. Class sizes do matter and I think the only people who ever say that they don't are people who have never actually had to step up and teach impacted classrooms -- cause I have yet to meet a real teacher in a real school who thinks that HUGE classes hold no sway when it comes to their own ability to perform. Angel, I disagree. I mean the fact is that it’s just not possible to keep up with all the demands over the course of the year once you hit a certain point of student volume. After all, there are only a certain amount of essays you can grade before you are cutting corners simply out of the sheer necessity to sleep… and thus the kids are getting less of you as a teacher because you can’t be as thorough… which therefore means the quality of my ability to be as responsive as I need to be to the students in my class in order to help improve their skills is jeopardized, if not sacrificed outright. To teach a class of 20 gives me the opportunity to dive deeply into each student’s work. To teach a class of 50 does not provide that same opportunity and thus, I am forced to, as mentioned, seek shortcuts to navigate the demands of this job.

And to be as immensely successful as I need to be, taking the “path of least resistance” is not really a best means to this end.

I agree, a poor teacher is not necessarily a better educator with 20 as opposed to 50 kids but a great teacher is less so when they are charged with 50 per class as opposed to 20.

Class sizes do matter and I think the only people who ever say that they don’t are people who have never actually had to step up and teach impacted classrooms — cause I have yet to meet a real teacher in a real school who thinks that HUGE classes hold no sway when it comes to their own ability to perform.

]]> By: Angel DeRue http://www.alanlawrencesitomer.com/2009/09/23/1476-do-kids-have-to-sit-on-the-floor-for-us-to-recognize-that-we-are-heading-towards-rock-bottom/comment-page-1/#comment-5 Angel DeRue Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:45:25 +0000 http://www.staging.electronichog.com/wordpress/?p=1476#comment-5 It sounds like you are making one [valid] point in an attempt to make a totally different [and not so valid] one. The fact that each and every student in the classroom should have (and needs) a chair to sit on and a desk to work on goes without saying. Your argument that it's harder to teach 50 kids when 15 of them are without these tools is a valid one, and one that should certainly be addressed by your school's and/or district's administration. But to suggest that you cannot be "the same teacher" for a class of this size is a non sequitur at best and an outright fallacy at worst. Say those same 50 kids each had the proper tools to learn and you have excellent classroom management skills. Do you mean to say that you would not be as effective a teacher with them as with a smaller class? Let's try not to hide behind the popular argument that smaller class size is better for students. Good teaching trumps smaller classes in every case. The transverse argument to the one I made earlier also applies...a bad teacher is no better with a class of 20 than with a class of 40, plain and simple. It sounds like you are making one [valid] point in an attempt to make a totally different [and not so valid] one. The fact that each and every student in the classroom should have (and needs) a chair to sit on and a desk to work on goes without saying. Your argument that it’s harder to teach 50 kids when 15 of them are without these tools is a valid one, and one that should certainly be addressed by your school’s and/or district’s administration. But to suggest that you cannot be “the same teacher” for a class of this size is a non sequitur at best and an outright fallacy at worst. Say those same 50 kids each had the proper tools to learn and you have excellent classroom management skills. Do you mean to say that you would not be as effective a teacher with them as with a smaller class? Let’s try not to hide behind the popular argument that smaller class size is better for students. Good teaching trumps smaller classes in every case. The transverse argument to the one I made earlier also applies…a bad teacher is no better with a class of 20 than with a class of 40, plain and simple.

]]> By: Angel DeRue http://www.alanlawrencesitomer.com/2009/09/23/1476-do-kids-have-to-sit-on-the-floor-for-us-to-recognize-that-we-are-heading-towards-rock-bottom/comment-page-1/#comment-572 Angel DeRue Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:45:00 +0000 http://www.staging.electronichog.com/wordpress/?p=1476#comment-572 It sounds like you are making one [valid] point in an attempt to make a totally different [and not so valid] one. The fact that each and every student in the classroom should have (and needs) a chair to sit on and a desk to work on goes without saying. Your argument that it's harder to teach 50 kids when 15 of them are without these tools is a valid one, and one that should certainly be addressed by your school's and/or district's administration. But to suggest that you cannot be "the same teacher" for a class of this size is a non sequitur at best and an outright fallacy at worst. Say those same 50 kids each had the proper tools to learn and you have excellent classroom management skills. Do you mean to say that you would not be as effective a teacher with them as with a smaller class? Let's try not to hide behind the popular argument that smaller class size is better for students. Good teaching trumps smaller classes in every case. The transverse argument to the one I made earlier also applies...a bad teacher is no better with a class of 20 than with a class of 40, plain and simple. It sounds like you are making one [valid] point in an attempt to make a totally different [and not so valid] one. The fact that each and every student in the classroom should have (and needs) a chair to sit on and a desk to work on goes without saying. Your argument that it’s harder to teach 50 kids when 15 of them are without these tools is a valid one, and one that should certainly be addressed by your school’s and/or district’s administration. But to suggest that you cannot be “the same teacher” for a class of this size is a non sequitur at best and an outright fallacy at worst. Say those same 50 kids each had the proper tools to learn and you have excellent classroom management skills. Do you mean to say that you would not be as effective a teacher with them as with a smaller class? Let’s try not to hide behind the popular argument that smaller class size is better for students. Good teaching trumps smaller classes in every case. The transverse argument to the one I made earlier also applies…a bad teacher is no better with a class of 20 than with a class of 40, plain and simple.

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